Confined event Time Trial League

[AlanT]

The club currently runs a number of confined event time trials across the spring and summer months. Some of these are handicapped events, meaning that it's not always the fastest rider that wins the award at the end of the season. Discussion after the Georgetown Cup open event indicated that there was some demand for a structured TT competition within the club. This proposal therefore outlines a Confined TT league that will reward the consistently fastest riders, and, hopefully, increase rider participation in the confined events. It should be noted that the existing awards will be completely unchanged. This will be an addition to what is already there, and in my view, will be experimental to gauge participation levels. There will be no actual physical prize at the end of the season, only the kudos of knowing that you are the most consistently fast male/female rider in Johnstone Wheelers.

The proposal is this:

The TT league shall consist of

1 restricted gear TT over 10 miles.

3 hilly TT each over 10 miles.

10 Chocolate series, each over 7.2 miles

8 league of 10 (including the Frank Lauder 10) each over 10 miles.

2 25 miles(run as part of the CTT events)

4 2up TT, each over 7.2 miles.

 

Points are awarded for the first 5 finishers on the basis of the distance raced, i.e. 7, 5, 4, 3, 2, for a 7.2 mile race, 10, 8, 7, 6, 5 for a 10 and 25, 23, 22, 21, 20 for a 25 mile race. 2 up points are awarded to each rider in the team on the same basis. 1 point is awarded for finishing. 2 points are awarded for timekeeping/holding/marshalling. 5 points are awarded for a PB on the course.

Crucially, points will be deducted for NOT helping, if a rider has taken part in more than 30% of races, based on the number of races undertaken, I.e. If a rider has taken part in 15 races, but has not done the helping out bit, they would lose 15 points when the points are added up at the end of the season.

The league will be open to male and female members, but not Jets(at least, not for this year). Jets will still be able to compete for the current awards.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a proposal for discussion. It is not a 'done deal'. If there is no support for it, it will go away. If there are differing opinions on any aspect of this proposal, post them up. We can have the discussion and then put a proposal forward to the committee.

 

Your thoughts and responses are welcome.

 

Alan

[charlie p]

Well done Alan. Great idea

[thejanullrichdietplan]

Sounds like a good plan and the helping out rule is a sensible one.

[P McDonald]

Well done Alan. I'm sure Jan will assist with the spreadsheet

[stevenk]

Sounds excellent ðŸ‘ðŸ‘

[EricL]

Good idea, as the events are already in the calendar.

[XXX]

Good idea, but as I will be running the 25 can't actually ride them so 50 points not available to me , so would suggest some more thought , also maybe only need best 12 results so that those who work and can't make all the events can still win

 

But otherwise a good idea as I don't ride two ups or the chocolate series that often as just can't will them so use to train instead

[PaulL]

Good idea, might be and idea to do set points not matter what distance instead of distance based? as first in a 25 would earn more points than 3 firsts on a 7.... bit unbalanced? Just a thought

 

Great work

[Gerard Deeley]

I very much like this proposal, the important thing is to do it next season and not quibble about the details excessively. I do hope that the PB bonus will be enough to encourage people who are getting into TTs and those who are not the outright fastest.

[alexb]

Sounds good Alan. Also agree with the supporting bit.

[AlanT]

Thanks for the feedback guys, there's some really positive stuff in there.

To answer a couple of points. I understand and sympathise about the 25's. I'm likely to be in the same situation as I expect them to lie between the West Lothian Clarion 25 and the Scottish National 25, in which case I'm unlikely to do either of the CTT ones. I did consider not including them as they are technically open events, but we want to encourage greater participation. I guess the hard answer is 'be consoled with the points for helping out'.

I'm not sure how taking the best 12 ( or any other number) results would work, but I'm open to more discussion. I can see a certain amount of tactical racing being adopted with that. I accept that not everyone will be able to do all the events with work, family and holiday commitments (or injury). That will mean that people will miss races, and therefore points. Which adds to the excitement, and could build to a grandstand finish.

The thinking behind the distance based points is to encourage more participation in the longer (more demanding) races. With that in mind, is there a different points structure that would be preferred?

[XXX]

It would be like the cross races not all of your races count only x amount do, means that if you have an issue or miss a few it doesn't matter, but then again it depends on what you are trying to achieve, with the competition are you designing a competition that the most consistent rider wins or for a rider that partipates a lot

[AlanT]

Ok. There are 26 races in the series. We are trying to increase participation and at the same time reward the consistently fastest riders. Obviously there are big points on offer for the 25s, but there are more races at the shorter distances. There are also the oddball races of the restricted gear and 2ups. So that's 7 from the 26. How about the top 19 results, and if you haven't done 19, then it's all the races you entered?

If we have to call off any races, or reduce the number of races, then we reduce that 19 figure in line.

 

I'm not expecting this to be perfect on the first pass, but I do want to have a good base that can be tweaked.

[AlanT]

I've just realised that there's a glaring omission from the TT list, which is the Sam Dooley 25. Like the CTT 25's, it's technically an open event but since it is also our club 25 championship it needs to be included. That takes us to 27 events, of which we'll take the top 20 results. It also puts another 25 points on offer, under the current points proposal.

[thejanullrichdietplan]

With the number of marshals needed for the 25s then there will be a big points penalty for someone that is helping out compared to someone that isnt and is instead able to ride. Perhaps bump up the volunteering points for those events or make it so that a rider can only have one 25 counting in their overall score (if they get a PB in another 25 then they can still get the PB bonus)

[AlanT]

Seems a reasonable suggestion. How about 2, 3 and 5 points for helping on a 7, 10 and 25 respectively? That narrows the differential a bit and to an extent reflects the sheer boredom of hanging about for longer.

[Jannza]

I like the idea. I would earn more points from timekeeping than riding! 😂

[AlanT]

Yes, but you wouldn't pick up any riding points.

[AlanT]

Actually, Jann raises a fair point there.

So how about, in order to earn league points, riders must participate in at least three of the six categories mentioned at the start of the thread. That should keep the focus on riding.

[Mark O]

Been following this thread with a little interest. Seems to me it is getting complicated. Weighted points for winning/placing, based on distance are going to skew the outcomes to the point the league becomes meaningless. Place well in poorly supported 25s and then stand with a stop watch for the rest of the year could see you win the league, or have a higher league position than the keen rider who never places but turns out for every event. Surely that is counter to the aim of the thing - to increase participation in confined TTs. Paul and Billy's comments cover this pretty well without need for me to add anything. Also Jann's comment is quite telling.

 

To work the points need to be simple - points for turning up to ride, with additional points for placing (whatever these might be - 1st thru 5th) is all that matters. Weighted points for turning out for the less well attended events (25s and west ferry 10s) could be considered, but these can't be such that they skew the final outcome. My suggestion is that get 1 point for the Georgetown, 2 points for a 10 and say 5? points for a 25. Placing points should be equally tight if any difference at all between events. The most consistent and fastest riders should be at the top of the league, not the guy/girl who does 2 x 25s and/or then stands with a stopwatch.  Forget about points for timekeeping etc., or deductions if you don't. A simple rule if you don't do your bit then it gets noted on the league table for all to see. Assisting on events should be a condition of your membership/participation in the club. You shouldn't need rewarding for doing what is expected.

 

As for PBs, these should appear as riders aim to gain points against their nearest rivals, thus putting in the necessary effort. Additional PB points are unnecessary. A final bonus award could be given to the rider with the most PBs over the season, but not for each PB. This skews the league against the developed rider who might be consistently fast all season but won't see PBs every week in comparison to a developing rider who may well see his/her times come down every week through natural development. 

 

This may read as a bit of a poo poo to Alan's suggestion, it's not. I think a league structure is a good idea. However the points allocation, as proposed, is too wide ranging, unbalanced and now complicated, as are the coverall rules. Riding a 25 should not be a tap in for a top league position, but missing a 25 should not diminish all your other efforts. Standing with a stop watch or on a corner is a nil point effort, not standing with a stopwatch (at least once) is shameful. Turning out should be rewarded but should also consider external factors - work/family/holidays etc.

 

Just my thots

 

M

[Alan Michael]

Just catching up with this and i tend to lean towards marks thoughts, over complicated events will discourage people from taking part i feel.. Jan's spread sheet for the chain gang was a good idea, weekly up dates allowing riders to know their position in the event, and what they kneaded to do to move up the standings..

 

An open and transparent simple competition, it's just coming up with that that's difficult lol

[George]

What Mark said: helping out at a couple of events, either pushing off or timekeeping should be mandatory.

 

If you haven't helped out by end of season then your points are all scrubbed.

 

Bonus points for being bald & fat.

[AlanT]

Guys, thanks, all very helpful and positive. The consensus is leaning towards a straight points award, so how does 10, 8 ,7, 6 and 5 sound, with finishing points of 1, 2 and 5 for 7, 10 and 25 miles. All points nullified for not helping.

Open to further suggestions on rewarding PB's.

 

I like simple.

[alexb]

Looking forward to this, what with new bike and George's bonus points!

[thejanullrichdietplan]

very nice

 

if darth vader was a tester he'd be wanting a shot of that!