13 Jan main bunch full coast two

[Guest EPCC]

Ardrossan Largs Greenock home 0900

Enjoy working

[Gummers]

Including Kilwinning was awesome today Billy with post bagel basket increase in pace giving some really nice fast miles on the back of tiring legs. What do you think?

Andy

Ps glad your Italian bits are fine.

Pps didn't know you were Italian

[Guest GEORGE DONNELLY]

Should try to do the full Kilwinning, weather permitting.

[Paul C]

I'll give it a go.

can always bale out at Hayley or Clune !!

[Mark O]

Long range forecast is hinting at a dry but cold weekend. If not icy I suggest we tackle the Bowfield, the Barrmill bonds, top section of the Barmill Circuit, Sunnyside and Kilwinning. Thru the 3 Towns and rattle up the coast. Usual watering hole in Largs.

 

One point of order however, and I'm not having a moan before anyone takes the huff, just a gentle heads up. A Sunday run is just that - a Sunday run. It's not a Thursday evening eyeballs out everyman for himself ride. There is no point in splintering the bunch all over the road, you'd be as well going out solo for all the benefits of drafting you'll get. If you're feeling strong then ride more at the front but keep the pace steady, which doesn't necessarily mean pedestrian.

 

I don't see the point in guys getting shelled out the back with the best part of 30 miles still to go, it merely serves to weaken the bunch. No problem with the pace getting raised a little so long as we don't end up looking like an aircrash. Similarly, I have no problem with a bit of a dig in the last few miles or so as per Billy's suggestion to yesterdays run, but perhaps the last 10 miles where those who might get spat out are within reasonable distance of home. That said, there is a bit of an onus to work to get back on if you do become detatched. The bunch will ease up of course or send someone back for but you can't dawdle.

 

While I'm on my soap box, and I include myself in this 'cause I'm probably just as guilty, we do need to work on our bunch discipline. Usually we are pretty neat and tidy but at times yesterday we were all over the place - big gaps, half wheeling, riding 3 abreast cutting in too early, not holding the wheel in front. Its a crash waiting to happen guys. I think the anniversary of Tom's spill is a good time for a reminder of what can happen if you switch off. If you're not sure what to do ask, if you see someone make a mistake point it out - its the only way they'll learn. We need to communicate and pass info up and down the lines. At the front you really can't hear whats going on behind, the shouts coming forward need to be louder. I know this is all very boring but a necessary evil.

 

To save Billy's and my blushes we'll leave bike preparation and maintenance for another day.

 

M

[chung]

Hi All,

 

I agree & support what Mark had said regarding this being a "Sunday Run". Maybe a faster one at that compare to say other ones.

The whole point in going out and riding as a bunch is just that, ride as a bunch! Not just yourself!

 

This is not a race, if you're the strongest rider, then I believe it's good bunch etiquette to help your fellow clubmates who might be struggling a bit. (You never know the favour may & can be return later) of course you cannot do that if that person is struggling right from the start. But keeping it together as long as possible as Mark suggested should be encouraged. Again as Mark suggested, the bunch can whip it up on the last stretch of the run, that's not a problem!

 

So, come on let's make this work!

 

Cheers

 

Chung

[Colin McPhee]

+ 1 Had to work my socks off to get back on in the last bit.

[Guest GEORGE DONNELLY]

1. If you are struggling from the start then you haven't been training.

Riding your bike more often helps remedy this.

 

2. 20mph along the coast isn't an inordinately high pace. At times we were doing 15mph on the flat.

This is not fast enough for this group.

 

3. I dropped back and towed people back to the group on 4 occasions yesterday.

 

4. We always regroup at top of hills, junctions, etc. No-one was left behind apart from Tom who instructed us to go on.

 

5. "the main bunch" is for riders with a certain level of fitness. It is the individual's responsibility to attain this. Riding your bike more often helps

(see point 1)

 

Gents, we have all been dropped or found the going tough. Don't go in a huff, get fitter. The goal is to improve not drop to the level of the least fit group member.

[Guest EPCC]

I agree with George pace should be high enough for some exercise it is after all the main bunch if we don't do this we will lose more riders to the bogs bunch

Those who are not as strong do less time at the front

Like all runs there are hard bits where the pace increases especially the run into Largs but we all know this you can't expect those who ride all year not to have some fun

Mark you should have stayed silent as we have been over this on may occasion and we seem to go round in circles

[Mark O]

Billy with respect I'm entitled to my view and the right to air it. You may not agree with what was posted but dont tell me I should stay silent. For the record I generally agree with George's post. No one was struggling from the start and we all expect and accept there will be points in the run when the pace will crank up. The run into largs is a perfect example. What I was getting at was the shambles of a bunch between hunters ton and the far side of seamill. There was no bunch and no clear regrouping point resulting in a rider turning back. No rider should feel they have to do that.

Yes we can have a bit of fun but not to the detriment of the bunch and not for a prolonged distance. The fitness of the bunch is not dissimilar but people will have off days or be returning from injury or a forced lay off. We just can't abandon these guys. Yes there were a couple of fit strong riders out yesterday but if we were to ride at the level of the fittest strongest rider all the time there wouldn't be a bunch. Riding in the bunch does on occasion require you to ride within yourself every bit as much as pushing yourself when required. Read my post again, I'm t advocating we take a pedestrian approach to Sunday runs and I do think there is an onus on riders to get back on if dropped, but we've got to recognize when a bunch is disintegrating and sort it out. I was relatively comfortable yesterday but others clearly weren't even when sitting in. Long and steady rides is my understanding of the winter rides. In my view its entirely selfish to ignore that. It won't be the first or last time I'll have a better more experience rider tell me to rein it in. Sometimes that's the way it goes. I'll say again we ride as a bunch yesterday the bunch imploded for a good bit. A bit of sanity after all its only January plenty of time to collectively ramp it up as the year progresses.

 

M

[Guest EPCC]

Don't care had enough of the same stuff week after week fill your boots I will not post another run

Bogs bunch for me I think at least I will get a workout until I am dropped and not have to go through ground hog day

[Guest GEORGE DONNELLY]

I can see both sides of the coin and I know there is an etiquette involved in group riding, however, this runs two ways-Yes, we should wait for the slower riders, which we did but those who have been long term absentees and haven't been training shouldn't turn up and think it acceptable to have the others chittering for ages by the roadside as they wait for them .

 

Respect is a two way street.

 

It seems I am getting it in the neck from some for going harder than they would like. I won't apologise for this. I was instructed to crank the pace up on the way out of Largs and did as I was told.

 

There were numerous guys in that group who would leave me gasping if they were fit. You have to be honest with yourselves, the pace wasn't any faster than the average ride last winter it's just that you have been slacking.

 

If you cast your mind back to this time last year, the majority of the main bunch were training for the Nove Colli. This involved hilly rides for the best part of 3 months.

 

It's no secret I'm no fan of hills but I respected the wishes of the majority and got on with it without a cheep.

 

Likewise, I got dropped on Thursday night rides and some late summer club runs because I wasn't doing the work.

 

I didn't winge and ruin other peoples enjoyment. I took my lumps and got on with it.

 

If the main bunch is to regress into a gentle club run and that is the wish of the majority then, fair enough, I'll leave you to get on with it.

 

Like Billy says, the bogs bunch is an option. I would most certainly get dropped but I'm a big boy and would find my may home and I wouldn't moan about it.

 

p.s. we had this conversation last year too!

[GreigS]

you could always reform the intermediate bunch no dummies get spat oot

 

signed Anon

[Guest EPCC]

My final word on this subject

The main bunch is not either the thirty milers or the intermediate , alternative bunch it is the main bunch which would suggest that you would have to have a level of fitness to ride with them

So why are we trying to make this a driving miss daisy bunch

The format we use has worked for the last few years and most people have improved skills and fitness but we would like to turn this back

I did not do all the run on Sunday but at times on the way down the coast we were lucky if we were riding at 16mph which in a bunch ride is nothing short of tourist pace

I think if you are of the opinion that this is the way forward join the thread and post your thoughts

I for one think not as we have two other bunch rides that cater for this

As stated either way I have had my fill of the greeting and think its time for somebody else to pat rides

I can't make the bogs bunch on the 19 so will be going out for a decent paced run on the Sunday Full coast whether with the main bunch or a new bunch only time will tell but I will not be slowing down because others can't be bothered training

[Gummers]

I think we are probably closer as a bunch as this string suggests. There's more agreement than disagreement. I don't think there is any doubt that we need to maintain a decent pace and there should be an expectation that you need to bring a level of fitness to the main bunch. This is each person's responsibility. If I get dropped, and that has happened more than I like to recall in the last year then i know I'm big enough to look after myself, properly kitted out and able get myself home.

 

That said there was a breakdown in bunch discipline between Largs and Seamill and if the bunch decide bursts of speed off the front at that stage in the ride is what we should be doing then that's fine with me. My own view is that the pace should be strong and consistent, increasing post BB but maintaining discipline and team cohesion. In the last 10 to 15 miles I think some action and increasing bursts of pace is going to strengthen us all.

 

Billy it's very much appreciated that you put up these runs and provide the team with an opportunity to express views, sign of a healthy bunch!

 

Andy

[al yuille]

 

Aw guys - get off Billy's back. A lot of time and effort goes into planning those runs. What is it this week Billy - coast !?

 

Hers one for you. - Coast to Toast

 

 

http://www.manlywarringahcc.org.au/training-rides/

 

Enjoy !

[Tom Hill]

Perhaps I can say a few words.....

The main bunch is just fine as it is; untidy at times, yes but that improves as the year progresses.

I thought the run on Sunday was pretty much as posted by Billy.

I knew I would struggle after the cafe, but I also know that when I have not been able to train, once over 60 miles, the quickest way I get better is by toughing it out.

 

On Sunday, despite George, Charlie and Colin helping me get back on, I knew I could not hold a wheel and was therefore, in my opinion, hindering the run. We've all been dropped and someone helped us back but this was different.

 

It took a lot of convincing to make the bunch go on and

I was happy to make my own way back and happy I got as far as I did.

 

So with that, let's get on with it! See you next Sunday.

 

Tom

[charlie p]

Wow

Was there a shift in the moon that I missed. All we need is for those who feel strong to take longer turns at front. If u r not going fast enough u will soon be told. If u r toiling simply ride thru. If u r really toiling then u need to consider if u r in right bunch. I enjoyed last Sunday but agree that got a bit messy between Largs and ardrossan but after that we looked out for each other and had a great run in.

For what it is worth in my view the bunch has got bigger and better over the last. 3 years and long may it continue.

I intend to do a mix of main bunch and bog bunch runs and I had made that decision a while back having done 1 bogs run thus far.

Happy cycling

[Mark O]

Andy, elloquently and precisely put.

 

I think I'm being painted as the disgruntled one on this. For the record I'm not. I wasn't left limping my way home on my lonesome and don't have an axe to grind. I did not suggest that we slow down to a "tourist" pace. Al, no one at any point had a go at Billy, he'd been forced to chuck it due to a mechanical, and absolutely his efforts and enthusiasm in posting runs, whipping the main bunch in to shape over the last 2 years are appreciated and recognised by all and indeed the club itself. I'd be the first to applaud him - I dare someone to say otherwise. However, this is not about Billy Mac - never was.

 

To recap the points raised by me were

 

1. The speed was ramped up to the point that the bunch lost total cohension. (This should not be read as we should go slow. This should be read as yes go hard, Andy's strong and steady are well chosen words, but a little thought to still keeping it together with 30 miles or so to go.)

 

2. Bunch discipline in the widest sense was poor on the day. I have to say this point has been totally overlooked and swamped by the whole debated about what speed.

 

Can we have a little perspective please. By and large we get it right - a good pace (yes it'll go up and down), some good banter, a bit of a habble and some hills. I don't think we have to get all precious and defensive because something doesn't go perfectly on any given day. I raised 2 issues I didn't point any fingers or have a go at an individual. My points were couched in general terms and intended to allow the bunch as a whole to improve and function better - not just me or A. N. Other. If I or anyone else can't raise a matter then its a sad day indeed. Comments made about fitness and detached riders working to get back on are every bit as valid as those made by me regarding bunch cohesion and discipline and should be noted.

 

There is a clear desire to move along briskly and that is entirely fine. All those riding should and probably are aware of this but, in my view, it can not be the sole paramount concern to the exclusion of anyone and we have to remain alive to that or we will become the 'racing bunch'. If I'm wrong in this then by all means show me the error of my ways.

 

Hopefully we can learn from this, put it behind us and look forward to a good year on the road.

M

[Guest GEORGE DONNELLY]

Mark, I'm glad you saw sense. Apology accepted.

 

Let's move on

[Darryl Gunson]

So, 9am at the clubrooms chaps?

[Gummers]

Club rooms. 9am

[Guest GEORGE DONNELLY]

At least we all agree on that, don't we?

[Tom Hill]

Synchronise watches?

[Alan Fox]

I'll be there...