Committee Alan McLean Posted November 18, 2012 Committee Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 This perennial discussion point came up on Saturday when a few riders did not want to carry on down the coast. I still don't have an answer. If a rider arrives at Largs feeling a bit fragile or needs to cut a ride short is it quicker/easier to: 1)stay with a fit bunch riding fastish down to West Kilbride and back to Dalry then Kilbirnie, or 2)head solo over Haylie Brae to Kilbirnie? Does anyone have comparable actual time or power output data for these sections? Solo hill vs. bunch coast? I reckon the Brae route is faster but might need more energy overall. It ascends almost 250m. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GEORGE DONNELLY Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Not sure, depends how knackered you are-there is a good train service from Largs though so that might be quickest. Unless Ben Peacock is towing the bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Alan, it really is 6 of one and half dozen of the other. A fit time pressured rider probably would be quicker doing the Haylie with a smart run to kilbirnie - good descent into the town and then picking up the track. A tired rider probably better seeking the protection of the bunch. A bit rolling from the A78 until Dalry then a shirt sharp climb over the Hagthorn hill between Dalry and Kilbirnie. Circa 9 miles Largs to Kilbirnie. Largs - WK - Dalry - Kilbirnie is circa 14/15 miles. Add 10 to these for the track to Miller Street. Would be an interesting chase down of a lone rider by a well fired up bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPCC Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Alan Simple solo climb you might put out 240 260 watts then downhill to kilbirnie 200 watts steady track ride the same average just over 200 watts Full coast at least 20 miles longer if no turn at front maybe 210 watts with a few spikes of 240 260 but longer so if you can hide in the bunch you will put out much the same but for longer So the brae will be shorter but maybe harder The coast longer with a few sharp digs maybe lower watts so the answer would be the brae as you will get home quicker but more tiers Note this would only apply if you are wheel sucking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions P McDonald Posted November 18, 2012 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 The true answer to this question was subject of a doctorate study by Sir Stephen Hawkings, the eminent physicist and author of the breakthrough text 'A Brief History of Time (trialling)' Many years of measurement and analysis took account of such factors as, - what way is the wind blowing and how strong is it - do you need a piddle - how big are the guys whose wheel you can hing - will they wait at the top of W Kilbride drag - how gubbed are you really - would a can of coke and 4 Turkish delights make a difference - will anyone shout at you for not taking a spell - are you riding campag or shimano - are you on a carbon frame - what colour is your bike When first published the headline conclusion shook the traditional world of theoretical physics to its very core, 6 OF ONE, HALF A DOZEN OF THE OTHER martin, Darryl Gunson and Richard 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ross Toole Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 What we can conclude is Paul has had a drink and that the colour of your bike is paramount in its performance, the orangier the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GEORGE DONNELLY Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Ross. I prefer to think of your frame colour as montego sunset or autumn haze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Committee Alan McLean Posted November 18, 2012 Author Committee Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Thanks guys With the greatest respect you are all absolutely rubbish. Someone must have some realtime geeky data on this. Anyone got powertap/garmin power/times to compare? Or am I faced with a lifetime of perky "six of one, half a dozen.... " etc. quotes at Largs? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jannza Posted November 18, 2012 Administrators Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Depends on the rider BB to West Kilbride, Dalry etc for me as the climb is not as brutal and rolling hills. I've never tried to go up the Haylie on a bike and certainly wouldn't make it riding on a double! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPCC Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Alan My answer was based on absolutely no scientific fact at all I was just bored The real reply should have been MAN UP YA GIRLS BLOUSE and do the miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions P McDonald Posted November 19, 2012 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Ross. I prefer to think of your frame colour as montego sunset or autumn haze. Ross I prefer not to think of your frame at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Is this the tortoise and the hare trial of the cycling world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 As an aside. Jann how can you describe the Haylie as brutal if you've never ridden up it. Its a little testing initially until you get round the bends then flattens out to a gentle incline. Brutal is a little on the harsh side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Committee Alan McLean Posted November 25, 2012 Author Committee Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 Scientific, laser controlled, age-matched analysis of Strave feeds confirms an average of 40 mins from the Haylie traffic lights (top of horrid wee hill) to 30 sign at Dalry for a reasonable paced bunch. It must be another 15 minutes at least to Kilbirnirnie. Does anyone have average Strava/GPS times for a few solo rides from the lights to Kilbirnie? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions P McDonald Posted November 25, 2012 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 A Typically 45/50 mins from bottom of heely to lochwinnoch. Which would suggest much quicker doing the solo. BUT, that is when you are going ok and not out of your tree. AND bear in mind there was some waiting etc yesterday along the route from w Kilbride if you are using that data. So, the question remains unanswered. Think I just caused more confusion then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Committee Alan McLean Posted November 25, 2012 Author Committee Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 Largs/Dalry is steady riding time, maybe hurting a wee bit on the hilly bit (not that you would admit it ) Could bring it down to maybe 35 mins if the bunch really "puts the hammer down" esp on the fast A78. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions P McDonald Posted November 25, 2012 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 Admit what? I didn't see anyone taking drugs, I didn't hear anyone taking drugs, I didn't speak to anyone taking drugs, I am closely related to 3 monkies. Hurt on the hilly bits - not a concept I am familiar with, I only understand that pain is gain :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 25, 2012 Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 Alan if I may be so bold as to ask whaurs this thread goin' and whit road is it taken. Up the Haylie or thru Fairlie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Committee Alan McLean Posted November 26, 2012 Author Committee Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thread currently unsure. Probably six of one etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Touché. Moor Road anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions Gummers Posted November 26, 2012 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 I've been thinking about science of this. First of all you want to be sure the data are robust and free from bias. This means randomising cyclists to one of two groups: Hayley or WK. Randomisation needs to be independent. Given complex parameters as set by our resident expert Paul McD randomisation needs to be stratified according to criteria outlined earlier: needs a piddle, tiredness etc etc. this greatly increases number of cyclists required to be randomised. Ofcourse given the prevailing hypothesis: "6 of one, half a dozen of the other" this means or experiment tests a non inferiority hypothesis. Given variances around expected means for each group I would estimate that a randomised controlled trial of around 5,000 cyclists per group all using carefully calibrated Garmins will give us the definitive answer. Hope this helps. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions Gummers Posted November 26, 2012 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Alternatively and this is just a thought. This could be a new winter sport for the main bunch? Nice ride to BB then chase the rabbit. Happy to volunteer... Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigS Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 I find it easier jumping on the train back from Largs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Committee Alan McLean Posted November 26, 2012 Author Committee Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Andy, Points well made but I promise you that between us we have stored up data on a carefully estimated 10,566,889,876 rides on these two routes already in every variety of rider, weather and fitness. just need a spot of data mining and a supercomputer. Did not consider train option, we will have to analyse timetables as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Getting the train back from Largs is an anomaly and should be treated as such. As a viable option it should be removed unceremoniously from the experiment's parameters. Consideration of such an option would immediately engender a sense of copus outus (or copus outi, if there are more than one purchasing singles to Paisley) and illustrates an inability to man (TF) up in the subject rider, inspite of his wrecked physicality or time pressures. This option should only be considered if i) a fatal and mission critical mechanical event has arisen, ii) the probability of further wrecking of the riders physicality on arrival at home exceeds exponentially the mild discomfort experienced while chewing handlebar tape on the Haylie or hanging a wheel the instant before being shelled, or, iii) legal advice will be sought by the rider's non cycling spouse. Undying shame on them that suggested or even thought of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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