Sunday Main Bunch / "Pasta Training"

[Mark O]

Guys,

 

A couple of comments on the main Sunday bunch rides for no other reason than to start a bun fight.

 

I think the collective WE need to be clear that the main bunch ride is not a full on eyeballs out training ride per se. While these runs undoubtedly will have a greater emphasis than normal on doing some increasingly numerous and more challenging hills as the Italy trip looms large on the horizon, we mustn't loose sight that these are still club runs. There are main bunch regulars who are not heading for Italy and there were some new faces in the main bunch yesterday and we should be mindful not to discourage these guys. Was really pleasing to see so many out yesterday and long may that continue over the weeks. If Italy bound individuals want to do lots and lots and lots of prepatory hills then perhaps Billy's proposed Saturday morning hill repeats beckon, or you can join me revisiting the Fairlie moor road and others!!!

 

The usual bunch run rules should apply such as regrouping at the top of climbs but rapidly cooling down at regular intervals ain't much fun. This is not in any way a critique of slower climbers, but a comment to the choice of route at this time of year, the height of a balmy Scottish summer is some way off as yet. We ought, perhaps, to gradually increase the mileage and number/intensity of hills over the weeks as the weather gets notably warmer rather than launch head long into them. Yesterday was a fantastic day and the springlike weather no doubt added to it, but perhaps we just got lucky yesterday.

 

As for cafe stops, these are important and should be a feature of the run, more so longer ones. On a personal note by the time I got to Strachur yesterday I did need some real food - breakfast at half 6 doesn't last all day unfortunately. There are those who can go all day without stopping but there are also those who can't. It is those who can't that should be considered. I'd think it preferrable to be a bit stiff and in need of a warm up after a stop than having people in the bunch completely bonking and having to be towed home or worse eventually dropped and left to fend for themselves purely because they don't have the energy and can't keep going. Added to this the cafe stop is never boring and the social aspect is important, newer members will ask questions and pick up tips and advice. A cafe stop should be a given on a Sunday run rather than an afterthought, and only if there is a consensus to do so. That said I don't believe that there is any desire for the main bunch to become a gentile ramble around the countryside and generally its accepted that a certain level of fitness and ability is required to undertake a main bunch run.

 

The above shouldn't be viewed as a moan or a 'wee greet' from me, as I am generally happy to spend all day Sunday doing long miles and climbing hills and rattling along the flat in the bunch. I'm merely taking on board some comments and observations from yesterday and airing them for a discussion, (fall out, petted lips or official declarations of war) in an appropriate forum.

 

I've obviously raised my head above the parapet and as such am fair game for a verbal doin' but constructive thoughts and views are welcome.

 

M

[Paul C]

Excellent Mark - couldn't have put it better myself.

Just as we discussed yesterday on the ferry.

Bacon rolls here we come!

[Richie Cross]

Sounds great. I'm just about to go on the turbo for my first bit of pedalling this month so think I'll be lucky to make another main bunch run!

I'll enjoy reading all about them though!

[Darryl Gunson]

Hi All

 

I think Mark makes some good points. As for Cafe stops, I think the bunch have to decide. Certainly on long runs of 80 to 100 miles I would need a stop. The reason I did not stop on Sunday was because of time constraints. Having said that I am not always keen on a stop.

 

As for the length and intensity, it is always difficult to get the balance right. But I think the main bunch has been gradually increasing the mileage and intensity for a while now. So, I think we all know what is acceptable. I agree that the long runs should not by default be eyballs out.

 

I do think now is appropriate to start riding hills. It is only 8 weeks to Italy afterall. We have been doing long flat runs all winter and recently there have been more intense and hillier rides. Hills are always hard, but you don't half feel the benefit.

[Guest EPCC]

It would seem that we wish to bring this subject up all the time I don't know what was discussed or not on the ferry but I think enough is enough somebody wants to pls runs feel free .

[Guest EPCC]

I have posted main bunch runs up to May the exact date i am not sure so once these are completed who ever would like the task of pleasing everybody can start then enjoy

Looking forward to it all ready

[Paul C]

.....but, Darryl, Mark's point is that the Sunday club run is not a training run for Italy.

[Alan McLean]

Just cracking open a beer...this could be good.

[DavieB]

Just cracking open a beer...this could be good.

 

[Darryl Gunson]

.....but, Darryl, Mark's point is that the Sunday club run is not a training run for Italy.

Hi Paul, I would normally agree with that sentiment i.e. it is not training for some specific event. But, given that the main bunch consists mostly of people who are going to Italy, and bearing in mind that the runs have been posted and agreed upon, it is understandable that the runs take on a training character. And, if the bunch agree that this is what they are doing, well surely that can't be wrong. Perhaps some general agreement about pace and when a habble is allowed should be attempted. Isn't that what we've been doing all winter any way - building up the miles gradually, and the speed.

 

[charlie p]

I ain't"t going to Italy but for me the bunch runs have been great. yesterday was just perfect in all respects. a Good bunch meeting on the ferry some new faces but I did know Richard ( has done 8 ironmans ) At the start we kept it together. we waited at the viewpoint while Colin's chain was fixed we mocked Mark at his lack of prowess in changing a tube and then at tighnabruich brigadier Gunson colonel McLean and captain o"neil headed off like the proverbial bats out of hell to be chased by us lesser mortals. I for one had great fun .a ndy myself Tom and billy were pushing each other and were slowly but surely pulling in Davie and Greg. we were not a plane crash as previously described. we were more like condors . at the c 11 junction I made the decision to head back as I had been out day before and needed to get back. by that time I knew that Greg Davie Billy and myself were on the hill and we regrouped and headed in to Dunoon together. we knew Mark was waiting on the others and we also knew that there were smaller bunches and that no one had been isolated. Had we not turned off then we would have waited for rest with mark. as Richard had said at the start of this stretch it was a long uphill drag and to be fair it is at the top you wait unless you are cutting it short.

this forum is nearly as much fun as the runs themselves and Billy stop huffing and tell me were we are off to next week

[charlie p]

sorry billy missed your post about next Sunday's run

[Guest EPCC]

My last words on this

We currently have three groups the thirty milers intermediate and the main bunch from the structure of the club runs you don't need many brain cells to workout there may be an element of progression from one group to another though due to far the thirty milers have developed it is difficult to see the progression between them and the intermediates. There is an expectation that prior to coming with the main bunch you are fit and have some group riding skills this said the bunch ride is usually harder due to pace or terrain it is the duty of the bunch to encourage others to join and we have adapted an approach that utilise the stronger riders more by letting them do more work . This allows those who come out with us time to recover regarding the hilly routes these were always going to happen due to winter flat coast runs

So what's the issue maybe its not the main bunch maybe its the fact that there is no progression from the thirty milers through to the intermediates that's the problem

Before anybody states that they don't get coached that will be addressed soon as I hope to have my coaching badge by end of May and session up to intermediate will be arranged

To sum up you can't please everybody all the time but don't try and make all the runs the same as that is a massive backward step join the main bunch ride within for a while you will adapt and wonder what all the fuss is about

And finally you always have the choice

Last last point suggestions were sought prior to posting runs so if you didn't post or ask how can you complain

End of rant

[chung]

Hi Billy & all,

 

Rest assure that the only topic which came up for discussion on the ferry was the financial situation of a certain Glasgow football club & the calories figures that I burnt against the ones I consumed on that day.

I think what Mark said was based on his observation and views of the nature of these runs recently, and there are some very goods points indeed.

 

I personally think that somewhere along the line, we've lost the real essence of what a "Sunday Club Run" should be!

I was always under the impression that a "Sunday Run" is a club social riding event that caters for ALL members of a club, elder members, young members, female members, male members, existing members, new members (especially so) etc. (A bit like this society in which we all live in I would like to think!)

Shouldn't it be ridden at a pace thats manageable for everyone in the bunch with everyone taking their turns on the front and learning the basic but essential etiquette of riding in a group. It's where existing members can past on their knowledge & riding skills (which is not rocket science) onto newer members, but they can only do that if they can talk to them, not when they can hardly breathe because they have to keep up with the relenting pace.

I don't think a "coaching" session is necessary, you can pick up these skills just by passing it on during the ride. That's the way I learnt it, I think I did alright.

 

I was never really keen on this idea where you segregate the groups based on how fast or hard you can ride a bike. I thought that was reserve for APR races.

Obviously different members have different riding ability, but they all share one common ideal & that is to go out on their bike and enjoy the company of like minded cyclist.

I'm not sure about you, but I certainly want to chat to every single one of you in the bunch while I'm out riding. Maybe you don't want to chat to me, but thats OK, I'll just do all the talking then.

The fact that these so call separate groups actually make the runs "exclusive" rather than "inclusive" are really negative, I though the motto of the club was " the friendliest cycling club in Scotland", how can you be friendly if everyone is closed in their own little world. The problem with the groups not merging together is because people are intimidated by stepping into an unknown situation, a situation where they think they cannot cope & are causing problem to others. But I do not think it should be like that, a "Club Run" should make people feel welcome and enjoy the actual experience of riding their bikes! How often have we inter-act with members of the different groups, both on the bike & socially?

A Club Run is NOT a race & it shouldn't be an opportunity to kick lumps out of each others, there are better times & situation to do that for would-be racing members but certainly not on a club run.

 

So, why can't we just all go out and cycle as a club, not as separate groups. It's not as if we have hundreds of active members making it impossible to ride as one group!

Maybe I'm just an idealist .................. but I don't think there's any thing wrong in that.

 

Thanks for reading

 

Regards

 

Chung

[Guest EPCC]

Chung some valid points

However not many years ago winter runs consisted in the main of 4 to 5 people the bunch expectations change by the sum of all the parts these rides became more like a bike ride with some hard bits and some not so hard .

Since then more riders have joined the main bunch so the expectations of the bunch adapts . Flanders came and more joined in the bunch and again the bunch adapts this winter came a.d so did Italy others joined in and the Bunch adapts again

So what's my point it is its not me who decides what the bunch rides at its the sum of all the parts and most of the parts wants what it is s social bike ride which gives you a workout not training

I think it would be nice for all to ride sometime but it is fairly impractable so to be inclusive you have to consider all and I think we have nearly got there

I don't think the main bunch excludes anybody and we openly welcome anybody but to expect the main bunch to change is at present unrealistic and if it did we would end up with either less members or another group formed maybe the main bunch slightly harder than the social bunch but not a race training bunch I for one would not like that as it far to long a title so let's stick with what we have

[Guest]

So is there an issue with the main bunch then?

 

Who would have thunk it?

 

I only joined the club last May and in that time this has been the most frequent topic of

discussion-we are also no further down the line with it.

 

Truth be told, I'm not all that enamoured with every ride between now and May being

like a mini alpine stage but as the majority of the main group are using the sunday club

run as "pasta training" I'll just have to suck it up I suppose.

 

As for the pace issue, For sure, some are faster than others but everyone can get a workout,if that's what you are after. You could also get a workout by racing too.

 

Just remember, it is a club run-not a race.

 

Most of us came from a low fitness base and worked our way into the main group so, while

many have racing and tough sportive ambitions I think we should also take the blinkers off

now and again and remember that people moving into the main group are not at that stage yet and could easily be sickened by getting a doing just so someone can exercise their ego.

 

Peace

[Guest EPCC]

Just to make my intentions clear I will be riding the runs that are posted . If anybody wants to join me great ( apart for this weekends)

Those who want to change the rides feel free , call them main bunch rides or whatever you want as stated previously I will not be posting anymore rides for the main bunch one of the many other cooks can do that

I find the constant need to defend myself tiresome and at no time have I let my ego run away with me so I look forward to complaining about the route the pace the weather and the stops and let somebody else organise group runs

After all it appears that some of you can do it better so please let's start walking the walk

[Guest]

Billy-hold your horses.

 

From reading the posts on this subject I don't think anyone is

having a pop at you.

 

I for one have always appreciated you taking the time to post

club rides and I'm sure many others do too. Without your

enthuseasm there would be no structure to the club rides so

thanks are due.

 

Anyone who does have a gripe should be reminded that you

did ask for suggestions before you posted the rides up until

May.

 

I'm just not a fan of hills although I am slightly better on them

than you.

 

So put yer dummy in and saddle up.

[chung]

Hello Billy,

 

It is in no way an attack on anyone, it's just a debate that hopefully will make the club runs a bit more fun & enjoyable for more people.

Also, like George said, credit is due to you for taking the time & effort to post these runs.

 

I think the current situation have come about mainly by default, it just kind of drifted into that way without intent or design.

Its interesting that you bring up the point about the "Bunch" adapting to who ever is in the group. This idea about adapting is I think what's causing the problem, it's constantly evolving & has become a beast which is so far removed from its original state ie: A Sunday Club Run! The fact that it constantly adopts means there is uncertainty, and it's preciously this that causes the confusion & apprehension when someone is maybe thinking coming along for a ride. Some time, even I have second thoughts about coming along, not because of the distance but more the pace & intensity of the ride.

I'll be honest, I'm not a racer & never will be but I can handle myself in a bunch or long distance (I just need proper food, thats all) rides, therefore I shouldn't feel intimidated & I'm sure others feel the same too.

 

Shouldn't Sunday Club Runs be a simple affair, in the winter distance between 40-55 miles is normal riding around local area & ridden at a reasonable pace.

Then when summer comes, routes of over 70 miles is common with the Bunch traveling to further places ie: over the bridge etc. to get the variation & diversity of scenery.

Pick a route, set a time & wait for members & non-members to join in without the added thought of worrying wether one can keep up with the pace or not depending on who's there.

 

Thanks

 

Chung

[Paul C]

Billy - as George said we appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to organise runs.

Maybe the load should be shared.

How about different person does a month's runs planning?

I am happy to take on June.

Volunteers for other months?

[Darryl Gunson]

Dear All

 

As many have said before, people are always grumbling about the rides. You cannot please everyone. But, as far as I can tell, the way the main bunch has been run over the last two years has pleased almost all of those who are regulars. We have had runs posted, and agreed by the majority. We have also had a consensus on what the runs were meant to achieve, ie. a steady progression of fitness, etc etc. The bunch is the people who ride in it week in, and week out, and the bunch has done what it wanted. It is clear that the standard of riding and fitness has improved immensely. Most of the main bunch actually enjoy what we have achieved over the last two years. It is a product of people like Billy posting runs and of people sharing ambitions and horizons. So people are fitter, better bike handlers and are able to go further and faster.

 

it used to be that if you wanted a good long,hard ride, you had to go out with other clubs. Not so now. This club has three bunches: the thirty milers, the intermediates and the main bunch. The intermediate bunch seems as though it fits the bill for what Chung and Paul are suggesting: slower, less distance, cafe stops, newbies etc. There is nothing wrong with that at all. But riders do have a choice, which we never used to have! None of this means that the main bunch (or perhaps we should call it the fast bunch and rename the intermediates as the main bunch) is anti-social. On the contrary we have welcomed new members: step forward Andy and Colin and George. We even stop for coffee. Are we not known in the Bagel Basket for our contribution to the local economy?

 

So, why has this come to a head just now? Was the ride on the Cowal too hard (for some?), or was it because the bunch did not stay intact because some had to get home? I don't know. I thought it was a great day out. The bunch regrouped at every point. Those that wanted food and had the time to ride to the Cafe got it. If I'd not been timerestricted I'd have eaten at the Kames hotel or Otter Ferry.

 

So let's not get too upset here. I suspect things aren't as broke as people are making out. I certainly don't see that there is much of a problem. But that's just me

 

 

[Guest]

Darryl,

 

That's the most salient post yet on this subject.

 

In total agreement.

[DavieB]

Darryl,

 

That's the most salient post yet on this subject.

 

In total agreement.

 

+1

 

Time to chap this on the heid methinks.....

 

D

[Richie Cross]

Hi folks,

 

Haven't had internet access for a couple of days.

 

Have I missed anything???

 

[Alan McLean]

Just cracking open a beer...this could be good.

 

Thought so