Tony Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hi Folks this may be stating the obvious but the "Sunday run scene" has become a bit polarised of late. We generally have two groups going out on a regular or semi-regular basis: Beginners/Returners (aka "30-milers") Race/Sportive Training Group Based on conversations I have had with other members recently, I think we could do with an intermediate group - for those who can handle a reasonable pace/distance but don't have any racing aspirations - and also for those who do race but prefer to do their training elsewhere (e.g. midweek/Saturday chaingang rides). Maybe also for people who have raced on the Saturday and want to do an easy "recovery ride" on the Sunday? Finally, for people in the Beginners/Returners group who are ready to move up a level in terms of pace/distance. Again forgive me for stating the obvious but it will be to everyone's advantage (especially new members) if we plan the runs in advance, perhaps on a monthly basis. However, the planning and leading of runs has to be a group effort, partly because I can't make it out every Sunday - probably only about two Sundays a month on average. Anyway shall we start with August? Here is a provisional runs list - the name in brackets is the person leading the run: July 31st Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) August 7th Loch Thom/Largs? (AN Other) August 14th More Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) August 21st no run due to Paisley Crit - marshalling duties etc August 28th Sinclair Street? (AN Other) ...we can flesh it out with map-links etc later. Re distance - I would suggest (typically) 40-50 miles but this is negotiable - the main thing is to have a route publicised in advance so that people can tailor it to suit their needs if necessary (and also so that new members know what to expect). I would also suggest that each run should have a designated cafe stop for those who have the time/inclination (I rarely do but I don't want to be a killjoy). If you are interested, please post any comments here, and also please post your suggested routes in whatever format is easiest for you. If you can commit to leading a Sunday run then obviously you get to pick the route, which means you get to be "AN Other" I'm happy to update the above list as needed and then start a separate thread for each Sunday's run depending on what we have agreed. (I think it is best if a single person does that "admin" function - but if this takes off we can always arrange to do it on a rota basis). Thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancelogan Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Super idea. I fall into the "fast(er) pace but don't wanna race" category. Well, apart from the odd 30 sign sprint. My route planning skills however are not upto much or very adventurous. This is a great opportunity for those wanting to double their "30 miler" status. I for one wouldn't mind letting a club mate sit on my wheel to get a tow home for the last few miles to reach the magic half century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jannza Posted July 11, 2011 Administrators Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 28th August is the Sam Dooley, marshal vests available. ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Tony, Great idea but can I suggest we up the mileage a bit? I would like to venture around Dunoon or a long ride round Callander before the summer is out. Happy to take on the mantle of route organiser for any of these rides although I have the directional sense of a drunk badger. George. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPCC Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Tony I dont think we have ever had a race group/ sportive group out on a sunday what we have had this year is a group that put in a lot of miles through the winter, thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigS Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 dont know if anyone has noticed but the 30 milers covered 50+ yesterday so doesnt this make you feel that the new intermediate group should be covering at least 70 mile runs the 30 milers are upping their game and climbing every mountain that has been put our way just my opinion as it could be misleading on a sunday morning to which group riders want to go with yes our group can be a little slower than others but we dont race and we always get there in the end greig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surly Steve Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Tony, Just a note to say thanks very much for organising Sunday. Great run and great company. re Sunday Intermediate Group - Bill Thomson and me are happy to help out. Bill knows lots of good routes and we can fill in when you're not available. Stevie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al yuille Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Ah don't knock it Billy - your in the fast bunch now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jan thanks for the reminder. I like to support club events when possible so will take note. (Probably best to assume no organised club runs that day until nearer the time - when we find out whether there are enough marshals for the TT.) Thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 George yes absolutely I have no problem with some of the runs being longer. I only picked 40-50 miles as a baseline because it is the sort of distance that enables people to get home by lunchtime, which tends to be a cut-off point for a lot of people with families etc (roll-call at Stalag Carrigan is usually 1pm - any later and I run the risk of spending time in the cooler.) Nevertheless I recognise that most of us also like to get away for a longer run once in a while (Cowal runs etc.) Go for it - let us know your thoughts Thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Greg I hope you and Elaine are well. Haven't been out on the bike with you for a while - think the last time was the day I was wearing my DMs and riding my old yellow MTB...I was a real man in them days... No I'm sorry I didn't know the 30-milers were doing 50 miles these days. Sounds like they have gone beyond their original remit - how dare they! Maybe I'm trying to start an "Intermediate" group when one already exists? Main thing I'm trying to achieve here is just to ensure there's a consistent alternative on a Sunday for the non-racers who make up the majority of club members. Do you think we should have a single "Beginner/Intermediate" group? Would be interested to know your thoughts. Thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancelogan Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'd just like to say to the "30 milers" for coming on so well this year. Also, to Tony for coming up with the idea as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigS Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 hi tony my personal opinion is that i cant see the point of a new bunch doing less miles than the 30 milers no one in this group would ever want to hold anyone up its not every week we do such big miles but the majority we do cover approx 30 -40 like i said earlier our pace is slower than what your planning and i know some people have time restaints and mostly we have some bale out options just think it might be unfair to a new rider if he/she turned up at clubrroms on a sunday found out theres a goup doing 40 miles and then couldnt keep up with the pace it could put people off joining the club whereas in our group say weve posted a run for 40 miles the newbie would be able to keep up with us or me as i am the slowest in our group i think this is where it could get confusing thats why i suggested you post for bigger miles as there is a couple in the 30 milers that are now ready to take the next step up in pace and distance cheers greig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Can someone just clarify which group is the johnstone popular front & which group is the popular front of johnstone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPCC Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Al After diping my toe in the world of road racing please dont associate me with fast as i was 22 minutes down on the bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Accrington Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Good idea Tony I like the idea of a variety of routes with options to bail out, so let's see how it goes... Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Tony's idea generally appears to be a good one. However, based on Greig's comment is it the case that the 30 milers group has served its purpose for those who have been in it for sometime and have generally improved but perhaps not to a level that would see them comfortable in the main bunch. Having said that there do appear to some in the 30 milers who are capable of making the transition. I'm not saying they must or indeed want to but only that they could. Is it time then to rename the 30 milers as the intermediate/returnees bunch, which would provide the stepping stone for those who want progress onto the main bunch, provide an easier environment for those coming back to the sport after a lay off, but still provide continued interest/challenge to members who have started in the 30 milers and have discovered they can actually do a lot more on a bike than they ever thought possible. Personally speaking I would have welcomed such a group back in January when I was being spat out the back of the main bunch with disconcerting regularity. Perhaps it is also time look again at how we as a club attract new members to the club. Perhaps a newbies group is what is need and some advertising of the club is in order. Good time to do it with school holidays on, TdF in the press and the general increasing profile of cycling, care of the bike to work scheme etc. It might also be a good idea for those established in each group to occasionally step up to the next level to suck it and see, but probably more importantly, to go back and pass on some experience and tips to less experienced riders and encourage those capable to take the next step up to do so. From George's comment the main obstacle for some appears not to be the length of runs but the general pace. A good number of non main bunch riders did Tony's Ayrshire ton, cracking day out it was too. My view is the only way to get used to the pace is to get into that faster group and go for as long as you can. Tell the group before you start you're joining them and don't be shy at asking for the pace to be eased off when your done, but dont be surprised or disheartened if shelled at some point. I am the living proof that it can be done, and I wouldn't consider myself as a racer (nor do I have a competitive cycling bone in my body ). Tuppence worth duly added Cheers M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Och, some people are very precious about pace, distance, route etc. almost seems that "easy" "brisk" "steady" are the definition of a good club run. It's all about riding a bike! Despite hardly touching my bike this last 3 weeks I will be out on Sunday, I'm going to go with whoever/whichever group is doing whatever distance. I'm (obviously) not too proud to get shelled out and not too up myself to be unable to ride with someone who is a bit slower than me. I just enjoy riding my bike. Does anyone want to borrow my soapbox? I'm done with it for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPCC Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Can I borrow it might not be able to give you it back as I might break it . To be fair what its.all about is riding a bike I will be out this Sunday for a ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I agree with Billy's comment that the Sunday bunch is not a race/sportive training one. So. I would say that the so-called 'intermediate' bunch already exists as the norm. Some of the racers do occasionally plan other faster things if they are not racing e.g Paul McD's Arran Challenge. As a new member I started of in early 2010 with the 30 milers but now, after a lot of mileage on the clock, I go with the quicker group. I am not a racer but I have a no problem keeping up with the bunch. If you do lose contact there are usually a few others in the same position so it is rare that you cycle home alone. As Mark says, it is not so much about the distance it is more about the pace. Maybe the 30-milers should change their name as they seem to do a lot more than that distance. Easy Riders, maybe? The idea to pre-publish routes was suggested at the AGM as it was thought to be a 'good idea' but it never went further so Tony's suggestion falls in line with that proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeB Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 As a prospective member, i like the idea of having an intermediate group and/or giving a rough guideline as to average speed of a forthcoming ride. I'll hopefully be out with a group at some point before i join. However the 30-milers sounds like it might be a bit slow (famous last words!) and some of the other runs sound a bit daunting (Arran). For example, what is the ave. speed of the Thursday night run? I'm tempted to try it but worry about messing up your chaingang. Of course it is all about riding a bike but for newbies the intermediate group could be a great idea. I'm sure most of the regulars have a good idea of what speed a ride will be by who starts the thread and whoever says they are going along.Personally I have no idea if Billy Mac rips along Cancellara or lancelogan blasts away like Gilbert.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPCC Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thursday night is all about learning to ride quickly along the westerly and at the top of the climb. However there is a bail out at woodhall which gets you up the climb and we usually meet at the very top of the clue on kilmacom road pace is fast but it is downhill why not come along if you get dropped take the shortcut if not we group at the top Thursday is about learning of some of the racers and hanging on to a wheel again if pace to hot don't take your turn at the front Sunday runs vary from about 17 to 20 mph again some bits are faster and some are slower for example Georgetown road always rides fast same as the run in to the 30 at johnstone So come out and see how your legs are and I think I am more Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2023 Subscriptions charlie p Posted July 13, 2011 2023 Subscriptions Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Irate pirate with patter like that you will have no problem with Thursday bunch and are more than welcome. if you get a puncture you are dropped if you are too slow you are dropped. however same route every Thursday so at least you will know way home. also option to take shorter route and rejoin bunch. happy to enlighten you further on thursday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancelogan Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Pirate. To attempt to ellaborate on what Charlie said. Their are different ability groups on Thursday. Fast and slow. I myself can keep the pace on the flat but when it goes uphill i'm pretty much always last to the top but (and i'm not blowing my own trumpet here) i'll give you a good run for your money sprinting for a 30 sign. Just like in the tour, you don't see Cav challenging Schleck up the Tourmalet or Schleck on Cav's wheel on the Champs-elysees. Come out on Thursday and if you're not sure about the chaingang just sit at the back and observe what goes on, most club members have been in your boat at some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm glad to have stimulated a bit of debate. It's always healthy. I think "Easy Riders" is a genius idea. Can we go with that? So two bunches then - 1. Easy Riders (40-50 miles but with pre-arranged bailout option for newbies who might be struggling) 2. Main Bunch We can try it and then see whether a separate "Intermediate" group is actually needed. Probably not. Main thing is - I am keen for us to start getting the club runs planned in advance since this seems to be the one thing everybody agrees on. I think the main advantage is that it means people will have more opportunity to suggest their own routes up front, thus leading to a more varied calendar. It will also help to set people's expectations correctly about distance, timescale etc. I'm happy to participate in the "Easy Riders" runs list - someone else will have to take the initiative for the "Main Bunch" runs list. Thanks for listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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