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Gerard Deeley

Confined Events 2022

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I have submitted what is the first edition of our confined events calendar for 2022.  As a club we are currently looking into ways to increase participation and there is still much work to be done taking on board what has already been said.  Therefor this is only the start!  The calendar is, at the moment, presented with no changes.  This is to show what would normally be done and allow everyone to see how things will evolve.  New events need to be chosen and old ones will need to be discarded along the way as we look to adapt.

For the first few events, the reliability runs, they are quite established and have been reasonably well attended during my time at the club.  They will stay in place this year, but I propose a simple change.  We discard the middle group leaving and only have two groups.  The first group will depart at the allotted time and do the route as they have always done, which is a social pace that suits everyone in the group.  The second and faster group shall then decide how much of a delay they should have before setting off.  Let us all see if you have the skills to wait longer than usual and still catch the earlier group to finish as a whole club in Miller Street?  A long lie in and bragging rights await.  Please let me know how you all feel about this before it is confirmed.

An open meeting for all club members will also happen soon to discuss the rest of the calendar.

2022 Confined Events #1 15 January.pdf

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5 hours ago, XXX said:

Hi 

Not so sure you won’t end up with three groups with the fast group splitting, bu proof is in the pudding 

That is where the skill is, leaving as long a wait as possible, still catching the first group and everyone finishing at Miller Street as one massive bunch.  It has to be worth a try.

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9 hours ago, George said:

Just going to end up with folk in faster group getting blasted out the back and coming in in ones & twos. Not a great idea IMO. 

If the opinion is against it we do not have to do it.  Hopefully the idea of keeping a bunch together is recognised, there is no glory in leaving your club mates behind.  

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4 hours ago, Gerard Deeley said:

If the opinion is against it we do not have to do it.  Hopefully the idea of keeping a bunch together is recognised, there is no glory in leaving your club mates behind.  

Of course the glory of riding with the fast guys is making someone hurt, so would you have this bunch riding until they catch a group up the road , and then stop riding? they are not going to sit up. So it will end up either with one big first group and a small fast group or a bigger fast group that will fracture. For me I am happy giving it a go but it’s unlikely that there will be a catch on the first one as it’s a bit short 

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1 hour ago, XXX said:

Of course the glory of riding with the fast guys is making someone hurt, so would you have this bunch riding until they catch a group up the road , and then stop riding? they are not going to sit up. So it will end up either with one big first group and a small fast group or a bigger fast group that will fracture. For me I am happy giving it a go but it’s unlikely that there will be a catch on the first one as it’s a bit short 

It is agreeing in advance on how long the time between the two departures is to be.  Hopefully over the four events (they do not always happen though!) the faster bunch gets their pace and departure time spot on and there is no need for a let up or a split.  At this stage I am just pleased to be discussing possible changes before a final decision is made.  Meanwhile the earlier group just cycle along as they choose.

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Ah the glory of making your bunch mates hurt, dropping people and ripping bunches to bits on a reliability ride of all things. Geezo it’s a club run not a race. If that’s the mindset,  you’d all be better going out solo or in pairs and dispense with the idea of a bunch altogether. Perhaps that’s the elephant in the room.
 Make the catch, sit the hell up, look around speak to the rider next to you and just enjoy the last few miles back to Miller Street. If it screws with your detailed training plan, one has a decision to make. 
So glad I now ride with guys who have a bit of respect for each other and leave their egos at home. Helps to reduce the heaviness too 🤪

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The success of the reliability rides always boils down to the weather  - unfortunately we've been pretty unlucky in recent years even before Covid! But the weather can also IMO have an impact on the merits of 2 or 3 groups.

For example: weather good Saturday and Sunday - 2 groups can work. Gives those that want a hard/fast ride the opportunity to do so on with the Renfrew bunch on the Saturday and then they can also do steadier endurance miles on the Sunday at the reliability ride.

Weather bad Saturday (and no Renfrew bunch) but good on Sunday - best to have 3 groups. Gives those that would normally do the Renfrew bunch a chance at a hit out.

However it also depends on the nature of what the second group is - does it become the scratch? It's not everyone's cup of tea but usually the scratch group comes with an understanding that it isn't a social ride and while it's good to keep the group together the pace will pick up towards the end of the ride and the likelihood is that riders will be dropped so be self sufficient and know the route and way back to the clubrooms.  The earlier groups are (and should be) more civilised and social than that during the ride and more akin to a club run. So if there are 2 groups does the second group then become the scratch with all that entails? It's been long time since i've been the hammer rather than the nail so know all about getting dropped and the misery of having to chase solo but i wouldn't want to give up on that competitive side of things.

Mark - i still remember the time on the Sinclair St reliability a few years ago where you put in an attack with Alan McBride coming out of Langbank making everyone else suffer before getting a mechanical which allowed some to catch up....it certainly didn't feel like a social club run at the time :D  

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Some people do not understand why there is or was three bunches , so why should i determine the speed of a run in a group of faster and fitter riders, if you go out with the last group which will be the fast group you should go with the understanding it will be hard because it’s the fast group, obviously we haven’t done these due to covid but in normal circumstances if you went out with the scratch group it was hard and being dropped happened, if you didn’t want as hard a ride you went with the middle group, but even that split up if caught by the fast group, that happened in nearly all the reliability rides I have done. I will be out, if there is a middle bunch great if not I will hang on to the fast boys for as long as I can . Maybe those who’s memories are not so good should come out and ride , and that might jog their memory into remembering that it’s not a social ride in the scratch group never has been.

mind you I think the 30 milers would drop me just now  

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9 hours ago, Mark O said:

Ah the glory of making your bunch mates hurt, dropping people and ripping bunches to bits on a reliability ride of all things. Geezo it’s a club run not a race. If that’s the mindset,  you’d all be better going out solo or in pairs and dispense with the idea of a bunch altogether. Perhaps that’s the elephant in the room.
 Make the catch, sit the hell up, look around speak to the rider next to you and just enjoy the last few miles back to Miller Street. If it screws with your detailed training plan, one has a decision to make. 
So glad I now ride with guys who have a bit of respect for each other and leave their egos at home. Helps to reduce the heaviness too 🤪

Mark 

I am also glad you have found some new playmates , maybe bring them along for a ride . 

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It is not going to be easy accommodating everyone’s expectations for the reliability runs.  But can we at least agree that as they are club events then each group should stay together and no-one gets dropped.  Any dafty can go out on their own at race pace and wreck themselves, these rides are with your fellow club members and have other qualities. The rides increase in length through the four weeks and we can adapt and change what we do each week.  There is a post elsewhere on here showing the race calendar if that is your thing.

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10 hours ago, Mark O said:

Ah the glory of making your bunch mates hurt, dropping people and ripping bunches to bits on a reliability ride of all things. Geezo it’s a club run not a race. If that’s the mindset,  you’d all be better going out solo or in pairs and dispense with the idea of a bunch altogether. Perhaps that’s the elephant in the room.
 Make the catch, sit the hell up, look around speak to the rider next to you and just enjoy the last few miles back to Miller Street. If it screws with your detailed training plan, one has a decision to make. 
So glad I now ride with guys who have a bit of respect for each other and leave their egos at home. Helps to reduce the heaviness too 🤪

Potential club members?  It would be nice to welcome some new faces and these runs could be an ideal way.

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1 hour ago, Gerard Deeley said:

It is not going to be easy accommodating everyone’s expectations for the reliability runs.  But can we at least agree that as they are club events then each group should stay together and no-one gets dropped.  Any dafty can go out on their own at race pace and wreck themselves, these rides are with your fellow club members and have other qualities. The rides increase in length through the four weeks and we can adapt and change what we do each week.  There is a post elsewhere on here showing the race calendar if that is your thing.

Gerrard we know it’s a club run and most of the time the bunch will stay together, especially for mechanicals but my recollection of the fast group was that it tried fairly hard to catch the other groups especially towards the end of the run and if you didn’t have the legs or didn’t want to go too hard you didn’t and the group that’s left would carry on, call it being dropped for simplicity, you knew it might happen , I do recall coming back up lochibo road in the snow with big Al as company , it was sort of fun 🤩 

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I know you are right Billy, I suppose that now I am organising the confined events with a view to increasing participation I am genuinely fearful of mucking things up and annoying the club membership.  Kind of just want people to have a good time on their bikes, so I need to arrange what people want.

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New potential members transferring from the Club de Velo Scone Appreciation Society  - highly doubtful. The range of abilities is wide and we collectively acknowledge that and ride accordingly. Nothing to prove to anyone in the group. Sunday was a fine example. Coast ride, 65 miles but at John’s pace due to his limitation - near loss of a leg in a bike meets car event. Slower than I wanted or planned but there you go, sometimes you just have to accept it.

I think what Gerard is trying to say is the current format does not appear to be working, hence low turn out. Therefore the club needs to try new things to see if they work before unquestioningly staying with what presently isn’t delivering, and asking members to try something new and evolve.

Iain, the Langbank mechanical was dastardly sabotage of the lowest order. And officially it wasn’t an attack….. I was getting cold 🤣 Ended up getting a whole lot colder due to a sheared rear mech. 

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The Reliability Rides have been a success in recent history. Ideally 8 riders per bunch and if you have a mechanical you fall on your sword. We had a full bunch ride on Sunday: 3 punctures, one broken bottom bracket and many frustrated motorists who couldn't overtake, such was the length of our string. I'd prefer an APR with mudguards. Happy to turn out as long as I'm not lumbered with folks who say they have long COVID, a skinful the night before, and they haven't been out on their bike for 6 weeks. I'm assuming that's what a Reliabilty Ride ensures. Must google the etymology of reliability. I'm in the slowest group in the summer APR's and the best 10mins is when the fast guys come past and you try and jump on. I don't feel I'm being elitist in asking for small dedicated groups working together.

Got less to say about the Confined calendar. Tough to see how to reinvigorate the confined TT scene. I'd embrace the introduction of the CTT calendar - remember CTT is new to Scotland and much closer to the Confined ethos than British Cycling. The Renfrew Bunch taking over the Thursday club chain gang is a pain. If we embraced it we could turn that ride into an APR with a slower less experienced group heading off 10mins earlier. My favourite ride last year however was the Wednesday evening spin to Dalry. Easy ride with a wee habble at the end. What can beat that?

PS I'm salivating over getting a 10 minute start on a Thursday and when the main bunch catches us giving them hell down the Georgetown.

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1 hour ago, Gerard Deeley said:

I know you are right Billy, I suppose that now I am organising the confined events with a view to increasing participation I am genuinely fearful of mucking things up and annoying the club membership.  Kind of just want people to have a good time on their bikes, so I need to arrange what people want.

Gerrard 

You are doing the right thing, it all needs a shake up, TBH the first group in the reliability’s is fairly set, social pace all stay together, it’s whether we have a fast group, If we have two groups that’s fine the second group would ride normal club pace which is not overly hard , however if that group consists of some of the faster bunch I think we should facilitate a faster group if they want. I unfortunately am not fit enough for the fast group but would like to tag on for the last part of the ride if the group I am in gets caught , so I think we have two or three groups like Jan said if the weather was good on the Saturday it’s likely we won’t need a fast group, but if the weather was pants , then why not it gives the fast boys a different route and a zone 2 option for the grand old boy Mr Archibald 

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Many thanks to everyone who has ridden in the Reliability Series so far, here is hoping Sunday is a great day down to West Kilbride to finish off with.  As we are looking for ways to increase participation in our club’s confined events it is clear that this year’s diary will be in a state of flux.  The next three events are a little bit more competitive but still fun and will be the immediate focus for a revised diary.

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2 hours ago, Gerard Deeley said:

Many thanks to everyone who has ridden in the Reliability Series so far, here is hoping Sunday is a great day down to West Kilbride to finish off with.  As we are looking for ways to increase participation in our club’s confined events it is clear that this year’s diary will be in a state of flux.  The next three events are a little bit more competitive but still fun and will be the immediate focus for a revised diary.

Does your initial dates need revised ?

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Re participation, the reliability rides have always been hit and miss depending on the weather, the three groups worked ok, do these need changed ? Maybe different routes but otherwise they are fine, re time trials at the moment the club looses any second claim , not sure how many that is but maybe that needs looked at, secondly looking at other strips for the 10 TT might be an option and or changing day from Tuesday to Saturday, eliminates looses due to work 

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