Tony

Paul thank you for offering to lead the run on Sunday. I'm sorry to spring this wee surprise on you but could you please rename your thread "Intermediate Bunch Sunday 7th August 09:15" or something like that. Read this thread and all will become clear: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5957 ...and also note that I have updated this thread: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5914 Thanks Tony

Thread renamed back to what it was originally. See here for an explanation: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5957 Personally I was never happy as an Easy Rider. I always felt there was an Intermediate Rider inside me struggling to get out.

I think I have created a bit of confusion here. Let me explain. A few weeks ago I started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5914 ...proposing a new "Intermediate" group but one or two people made comments suggesting that a separate intermediate group was not justified. So yes I re-pitched it as a "beginner to intermediate" group under the name "Easy Riders" which seemed a convenient tag. I thought the 30-miler folk might want to come on board, in other words. Last week's "Easy Riders" run was really a bit of an experiment. It was a partial success in that we got a very big turnout but only a few of the people who turned up were (as far as I could tell) 30-miler regulars. Also, looking at some of the posts this week it's now increasingly clear to me that people want the 30-miler group to continue as a separate entity, and I'm not going to argue with that. As Groucho Marx once said - I wouldn't want to join any club that had me as a member So yes Richie is right - "Easy Riders" was a sort of "rebranding exercise" but not a very well thought-out one. Basically I think I misinterpreted a few comments (or perhaps just took them too seriously). For the sake of clarity I am now going to rename the "Easy Riders" group back to the "Intermediate" group as I proposed originally. (I'm thinking about this with newcomers in mind - "Intermediate" is fairly unambiguous). Anyone not OK with this? It's no more or less than what I proposed originally. To clarify this leaves us with three groups (the one in red is the new one): 30-milers Intermediate bunch Main bunch Personally I think these three streams reflect the size and diversity of the club's membership very well and I think it will encourage more people to come out on a Sunday. Over the years I've noticed that the Reliability Runs tend to attract a very big turnout and I think there are two reasons for that: 1. Advance publicity (routes are well-known and posted in advance) 2. Use of three separate streams (due to the three separate groups people know they will be able to ride with a group that roughly corresponds to their fitness level/aspirations) It's all about having fun basically - the more homogeneous a group the easier it is to manage the group and the more fun it is to be a part of. Also - I think there is an optimum size for a bunch (probably about 10-12) and once you get much beyond this it becomes a bit hard to manage. I must admit I didn't realise this until I tried "leading" a large group of 15-20 riders - simple things like trying to make yourself heard when shouting out the turns (it can be a challenge if you're at the back and the leaders are 20 metres away, upwind). Holding the group together through junctions is another one - and of course punctures/mechanicals become more of an issue the bigger the group gets. So these are further reasons why I think three groups will suit us better than two. (In fact I think this is one of the reasons Kenny MacDonald set up the 30-milers group in the first place - to split the Sunday bunch in two. I seem to remember him making comments alluding to smaller groups being easier to manage but at the time I didn't really appreciate what he was on about. Every day's a schoolday). Thanks Tony

Might be best to stick to the 0915 start time as per last week - to avoid confusion with the main bunch leaving at 0900. (Also - looks like the 30-milers wish to leave at 0900 as well...)

Oops - "out of stock"....

Alan When you say MTB pads I take it you mean the threaded type with the hemispherical washers (for v-brakes); as opposed to the post type (for canti brakes). If so then I would recommend these which I have been using these on my commuting bike recently: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=35469 ...at £3.99 a wheel they're not too expensive and I can assure you they work. They are also very durable (and don't dissolve in the rain). Thanks Tony

I noticed it but I assumed you were just trying to set an example with your "forward planning"

Yeah good to see so many people out. I counted 18 in our group, if you add on the folk from the 9am bunch then in total there must have been 30 or so people leaving Miller St this morning. My apologies for not letting people know in advance that the "optional cafe stop" had been moved out from Kilmaurs to Uplawmoor. I just thought Uplawmoor made more sense as it is nearer the end of the run. (Kilmaurs would be more suitable if doing this route in reverse.) Also I noticed there were no takers for the cafe stop anyway - I got the impression a few people were keen but were unsure how to find their way home if splitting off from the main group. This is a practical problem I hadn't thought of, but we can deal with it easily enough next time - early days yet.

Hi Robert haven't seen you for a few years. You coming out on Sunday? We could use your martial-arts skills to keep people in line (half-wheelers etc) Hope to see you cheers Tony

This is primarily aimed at: - beginners and returners - people who are developing their fitness with a view to joining the main bunch - people who are short of time ...but anyone else who does not feel they fit into one of the above three categories is welcome to come along as well. Leaving from Miller St at 0915 (based on the assumption that the main bunch leave at 0900 as I think they have been doing recently; we probably don't want both groups to leave at the same time as it might confuse newcomers). Here is my proposed route: http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=279485 This route is 44 miles. (It's similar to the route some of us did on 3rd July but with one or two variations, e.g. we will be missing out the really gravelly bit where Mark came off his bike...) Cafe stop in Kilmaurs for those who want one. I'll skip it but I'm sure somebody will be up for a pitstop. It is my expectation that we will ride at a pace that suits the vast majority of riders who turn up on the day; if someone is really struggling despite efforts to keep the group together (e.g. a complete beginner) then there are bail-out options for them - see below. Bail-out option #1 When we get to Greenhills (on the Barrmill-Dunlop road) we will be going straight ahead through the crossroads. If you want to bail out here you can turn left instead, then turn left again at Dunlop and head for Lugton then back to Johnstone via the Braes. If you take this option your total mileage from start to finish will be about 26 miles. http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=279488 Bail-out option #2 Just before Caven Mill we come to a crossroads where we will be going straight ahead. If you want to bail out here you can turn left instead. After a few miles this road will take you to a staggered junction on the A736. If you go straight through this junction you will be on the B778 (Stewarton Road). There are three left turns on this road before you get to Stewarton; the second one takes you direct to Dunlop. From there you can carry on as per option #1 above. If you take this option your total mileage from start to finish will be about 34 miles. http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=279486 Thanks Tony

Have updated the list with a tentative suggestion for August 7th - even though I probably won't make it out that day: July 31st Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=279485 This route is 44 miles but with two straightforward bail-out options which I will elaborate on nearer the time. This should make it suitable for everyone. Cafe stop in Kilmaurs for those who want one. August 7th Route TBA (AN Other) ....how about Kilmacolm/Loch Thom/Largs ??? Probably the same route Greig/Martin/Mary etc did the other week: http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=283797 ...it's 46 miles - or about 55 miles if you want to extend it by coming back via Fairlie Moor/Dalry/Glengarnock. Optional cafe stop at the usual place (Bagel- Basket???) A sensible bail-out option (maybe for a struggling beginner/returner?) would be to simply turn left instead of right when hitting the B788 - thus heading back towards Lochwinnoch rather than down to Greenock. If you did this and headed back to Johnstone via the cycle track your total mileage would be a very modest 25 miles or so (but easily extended of course). August 14th More Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) Route TBA (different from the one above) August 21st no planned run due to Paisley Crit - marshalling duties etc August 28th no planned run due to Sam Dooley - marshalling duties etc As before - any comments/suggestions welcome, especially from the 30-miler folk whose turf I am sort of treading on here.

Free to a good home: an "AllyCat" tagalong which was given to me by Ginty who I believe got it from Darryl...we've had some good use out of it but don't need it any more as I have now bought a "Follow-Me" tandem coupling which suits our needs better. The deal is you have to pass it on FOC to another club member when the time comes. See photo below if you're not sure what a tagalong is. http://www.flickr.com/photos/46407751@N ... 270708644/

OK - to get back to the initial thrust of this thread - i.e. forward planning - here's an updated version of the initial list I put up. Comments/suggestions more than welcome. July 31st Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=279485 This route is 44 miles but with two straightforward bail-out options which I will elaborate on nearer the time. This should make it suitable for everyone. Cafe stop in Kilmaurs for those who want one. August 7th Route TBA (AN Other) Looking for someone else to lead this one so they get to pick the route. Preferably with a specified bail-out option for any beginners who might struggle. Loch Thom/Largs, maybe??? August 14th More Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) Route TBA (different from the one above) August 21st no planned run due to Paisley Crit - marshalling duties etc August 28th no planned run due to Sam Dooley - marshalling duties etc To give you a flavour of what I am trying to achieve here - have a look at this link to a CTC Member Group (picked it at random from the CTC Member Groups forum): http://www.derbyctc.org.uk/rideprog.html ...I would like to draw your attention to a couple of things: 1. Variety of routes (no maplinks but hey it's the CTC so they've probably been doing these routes for the last 50 years and don't need maplinks) 2. Different people committed to leading the rides, so not dependent on one individual (crucial for short-term continuity and also to help the club thrive in the long-term) I hope that anyone who is reading this will feel they can contribute suggestions to the above list. Thanks Tony

Davie do what you need to do to achieve your goals and don't apologise to anybody for it. You're not going to get fitter by trundling through the countryside at 15mph enjoying the scenery... ...on the other hand, some of us enjoy trundling through the countryside at 15mph enjoying the scenery. "Vive la difference" "Intermediate" Tone

Title of post amended...

I'm glad to have stimulated a bit of debate. It's always healthy. I think "Easy Riders" is a genius idea. Can we go with that? So two bunches then - 1. Easy Riders (40-50 miles but with pre-arranged bailout option for newbies who might be struggling) 2. Main Bunch We can try it and then see whether a separate "Intermediate" group is actually needed. Probably not. Main thing is - I am keen for us to start getting the club runs planned in advance since this seems to be the one thing everybody agrees on. I think the main advantage is that it means people will have more opportunity to suggest their own routes up front, thus leading to a more varied calendar. It will also help to set people's expectations correctly about distance, timescale etc. I'm happy to participate in the "Easy Riders" runs list - someone else will have to take the initiative for the "Main Bunch" runs list. Thanks for listening

Greg I hope you and Elaine are well. Haven't been out on the bike with you for a while - think the last time was the day I was wearing my DMs and riding my old yellow MTB...I was a real man in them days... No I'm sorry I didn't know the 30-milers were doing 50 miles these days. Sounds like they have gone beyond their original remit - how dare they! Maybe I'm trying to start an "Intermediate" group when one already exists? Main thing I'm trying to achieve here is just to ensure there's a consistent alternative on a Sunday for the non-racers who make up the majority of club members. Do you think we should have a single "Beginner/Intermediate" group? Would be interested to know your thoughts. Thanks Tony

George yes absolutely I have no problem with some of the runs being longer. I only picked 40-50 miles as a baseline because it is the sort of distance that enables people to get home by lunchtime, which tends to be a cut-off point for a lot of people with families etc (roll-call at Stalag Carrigan is usually 1pm - any later and I run the risk of spending time in the cooler.) Nevertheless I recognise that most of us also like to get away for a longer run once in a while (Cowal runs etc.) Go for it - let us know your thoughts Thanks Tony

Jan thanks for the reminder. I like to support club events when possible so will take note. (Probably best to assume no organised club runs that day until nearer the time - when we find out whether there are enough marshals for the TT.) Thanks Tony

Hi Folks this may be stating the obvious but the "Sunday run scene" has become a bit polarised of late. We generally have two groups going out on a regular or semi-regular basis: Beginners/Returners (aka "30-milers") Race/Sportive Training Group Based on conversations I have had with other members recently, I think we could do with an intermediate group - for those who can handle a reasonable pace/distance but don't have any racing aspirations - and also for those who do race but prefer to do their training elsewhere (e.g. midweek/Saturday chaingang rides). Maybe also for people who have raced on the Saturday and want to do an easy "recovery ride" on the Sunday? Finally, for people in the Beginners/Returners group who are ready to move up a level in terms of pace/distance. Again forgive me for stating the obvious but it will be to everyone's advantage (especially new members) if we plan the runs in advance, perhaps on a monthly basis. However, the planning and leading of runs has to be a group effort, partly because I can't make it out every Sunday - probably only about two Sundays a month on average. Anyway shall we start with August? Here is a provisional runs list - the name in brackets is the person leading the run: July 31st Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) August 7th Loch Thom/Largs? (AN Other) August 14th More Ayrshire lanes (Tony Carrigan) August 21st no run due to Paisley Crit - marshalling duties etc August 28th Sinclair Street? (AN Other) ...we can flesh it out with map-links etc later. Re distance - I would suggest (typically) 40-50 miles but this is negotiable - the main thing is to have a route publicised in advance so that people can tailor it to suit their needs if necessary (and also so that new members know what to expect). I would also suggest that each run should have a designated cafe stop for those who have the time/inclination (I rarely do but I don't want to be a killjoy). If you are interested, please post any comments here, and also please post your suggested routes in whatever format is easiest for you. If you can commit to leading a Sunday run then obviously you get to pick the route, which means you get to be "AN Other" I'm happy to update the above list as needed and then start a separate thread for each Sunday's run depending on what we have agreed. (I think it is best if a single person does that "admin" function - but if this takes off we can always arrange to do it on a rota basis). Thanks Tony

Meant to say - I believe Bill Thomson is coming along and also new member "Andy from Langbank" who was out last Sunday. I only mention this as I believe neither of them has an account on this forum. Met Office forecast for Newton Stewart tomorrow is cloudy with sunny spells, couple of showers in the afternoon by the looks of it. Anyone still needing a lift? Unfortunately I can't offer a lift this year as I'm travelling down to Ayr with my brother John in his Saxo and I think the bikes will be in the back so no room for anyone else.

Hi Folks slight change of plan for Sunday - rather than the route I posted earlier I think we will just stick to last year's route - which looks like this - http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course. ... rse=230692 ...it is 97 miles. As per last year the cafe stops will be: 1. Lunch at the Cree Inn, Newton Stewart (I will phone them before we set off and warn them to expect us) 2. High Tea at the Village Hall, Barr. (Open 1330 to 1700 - I expect we will get there about 1600) Now a word about hills. There are a few on this route, of which the foremost are: Doughty Hill (18 miles) I don't know if this climb really has a name, but I know that when you get to the top (1100 feet) there is a forestry track going off to the right which is signposted "Doughty Hill" hence the name I have given it. Those who were there last year will remember the exhilarating descent to North Balloch. Take care (especially if there are cows on the road) Nick O' Balloch (22 miles) A stiff climb to the highest point of the route (about 1200 feet) followed by a very long gradual descent towards the River Cree. Pinmore Step (72 miles) Again I don't know if this really has a name but it's the steep ramp that takes you up out of the Stinchar valley towards Pinmore Mains farm on the road to Barr. Steepest climb of the day at 20% but only for a couple of hundred metres. Milton Hill (81 miles) The climb from Milton Brig to the wind farm (850 feet). ...let's remember to regroup at the top of the big climbs (I know you will anyway) and generally make a special effort to keep it steady and keep the group together for the enjoyment of everyone. I would be the first to admit I'm not the best at marshalling a large bunch so I'll be relying on others to help in that respect. Looking forward to seeing you all - remember 0900 start so try and be there for 0845 at the latest Thanks Tony

Incidentally -following the abortive feed stop in Stewarton - I've started a thread on the BH forum re cafes in North Ayrshire: http://www.braveheartcyclingfund.com/Co ... IC_ID=8890 ...some interesting replies so far...if anyone here can contribute, please do...

Ah the old protruding-nipple problem....I had that really bad once

That's great Kenny, I'll bring it down to Alloway or if you're out on Sunday I can bring it along. That's a nice pic of Greg LeMond by the way. It struck a chord with me as I am reading "Slaying the Badger" by Richard Moore at the moment - great book so far.